WEBVTT 00:00.470 --> 00:01.832 [Mardi]: Welcome to Proudly Out of Line. 00:02.452 --> 00:06.838 [Mardi]: I'm Mardi Moore, an old-school dyke and the CEO of Boulder-based Rocky Mountain Equality. 00:07.518 --> 00:17.150 [Mardi]: With everything going on around us in this world right now, it's the perfect time for all of us to be engaged, informed, and hopefully have a little fun along the way. 00:17.170 --> 00:17.831 [Mardi]: On with the show. 00:23.077 --> 00:25.380 [Mardi]: Be still, my cold dead heart. 00:26.474 --> 00:34.287 [Mardi]: Today's guest on Proudly Out of Line is the amazing, the erasable, the irreverent, John Waters. 00:34.688 --> 00:50.355 [Mardi]: Yes, listeners, that John Waters. The genius behind the famous Divine, the filmmaker of Pink Flamingos, as well as one of my favorites, the hit musical and film, Hair Spray. 00:50.791 --> 00:51.572 [Mardi]: Mr. Waters 00:51.613 --> 00:58.906 [John]: Not the John Waters that was married to Sinead O'Connor, the John Waters that's an Australian singing star that does John Lennon 00:59.307 --> 01:04.316 [Mardi]: No, we wouldn't want to mix that up, thanks for sorting that out I mean that's a whole 01:04.376 --> 01:24.460 [John]: One time I was in, uh, me and Sinead O'Connor, we were doing an interview and the reporter was so mean to me, I thought, why she being so mean and then she really she thought I would take that guy who's a sort of anti-feminist anti-gay kind of so it's not I am the other one oh then she changed her whole story 01:26.330 --> 01:31.161 [Mardi]: Oh, well, thanks for sorting, because my god, I was hoping I didn't have that other guy on the line. 01:31.202 --> 01:35.973 [Mardi]: We are thrilled that you're coming to Boulder. 01:36.033 --> 01:41.065 [Mardi]: And one of my jokes that nobody in this room liked is, you know, I'm always glad when I come in Boulder. 01:41.450 --> 01:43.754 [Mardi]: So I hope you have a great time here. 01:43.854 --> 01:46.698 [Mardi]: And we're excited to see your Christmas show. 01:46.718 --> 01:52.387 [John]: I'm excited to do it. I've written it. It's ready to go all new, all new, baby. 01:52.407 --> 01:54.009 [Mardi]: All new, oh fantastic. 01:54.290 --> 01:56.513 [Mardi]: So it's on December 14th at the Boulder Theater. 01:57.575 --> 02:00.139 [Mardi]: But it comes with a mature content warning. 02:00.439 --> 02:03.003 [Mardi]: And I am dying to know how nasty dirty. 02:03.063 --> 02:04.586 [Mardi]: Like, what are we looking at? 02:04.726 --> 02:08.672 [Mardi]: Why does it have this Tipper Gore, 02:08.939 --> 02:21.716 [John]: Well, I know I always think we should riot like the Brailleburg on September 17th the day that she made warning labels in the Senate. I remember that day and I'm still pissed. 02:21.816 --> 02:23.278 [John]: Is it, I hate when they say mature. 02:23.358 --> 02:23.539 [John]: It's immature. 02:25.581 --> 02:27.023 [John]: It's for immature people. 02:27.203 --> 02:28.205 [John]: Not mature. 02:28.225 --> 02:30.748 [John]: But I guess it should be, it depends. 02:30.788 --> 02:33.151 [John]: You know, people tell me they brought their kids to see Pink Flamingoes 02:33.612 --> 02:35.875 [John]: I said, you should be in jail. 02:35.855 --> 02:42.086 [John]: It depends, you know, people say it's their first date, I said, well, okay, you find any rimming jokes romantic. 02:44.029 --> 02:48.477 [John]: It just depends on your threshold, it's raw and cheap, but it's joy and free roam. 02:48.497 --> 02:57.272 [John]: So yeah, I think people come expecting it to be a certain push to the edge of what they can take and that's what humor's about. 02:57.893 --> 03:01.417 [Mardi]: It really is. On the edge, but I think you throw us into the hole, right? 03:01.497 --> 03:05.681 [Mardi]: So like, some of the language is you put the hole in holiday, I think. 03:05.761 --> 03:10.266 [John]: Well, I've been, yeah, yeah, but I'm also coming up with new vocabulary lessons. 03:10.306 --> 03:12.088 [John]: You might not know, like, blouse. 03:12.228 --> 03:13.590 [John]: That's a feminine top. 03:13.610 --> 03:14.231 [John]: Did you know that? 03:14.471 --> 03:15.131 [Mardi]: I didn't know that. 03:15.152 --> 03:16.453 [Mardi]: I never wanted to wear one. 03:17.154 --> 03:17.894 [John]: Okay. 03:17.914 --> 03:20.938 [John]: But, um, but it's no, it's describes a type of man. 03:22.760 --> 03:24.441 [Mardi]: Ah, I didn't know that word. 03:24.522 --> 03:27.765 [John]: Yeah. It's a sub-bear word. 03:28.505 --> 03:30.748 [Mardi]: Oh my god, I've learned so much every time. 03:30.848 --> 03:34.312 [John]: So I have a lot of vocabulary lessons in my Christmas show, yes. 03:34.733 --> 03:38.017 [Mardi]: I'm loving it because in the queer community, this language changes daily. 03:38.037 --> 03:39.299 [Mardi]: I can't keep up. 03:39.339 --> 03:41.081 [Mardi]: And now I know I can't keep up. 03:42.202 --> 03:42.222 [John]: Well 03:42.723 --> 03:44.085 [John]: And I guess it changes daily. 03:44.105 --> 03:45.567 [John]: I think it needs to change more. 03:46.288 --> 03:49.792 [John]: Like I hate when somebody says to me, calls camp. 03:49.812 --> 03:57.702 [John]: But I haven't said the word camp since I was in a antique shop, 1962 talking about Rita Awerfield. 03:59.858 --> 04:10.229 [Mardi]: I'll tell the transman to my office who tried to go to see you for years in San Francisco at a little dark club where the basement was full of fun. 04:10.610 --> 04:13.112 [John]: Well, there were lots of those clubs in San Francisco. 04:13.413 --> 04:15.054 [Mardi]: Oh my God. 04:15.315 --> 04:29.730 [John]: I mean, there is very some good clubs in San Francisco, but I'm saying the days of the gloryhole, the toilet and the mine shaft and the best one of all was Hellfire that was in New York and it was gay and straight together. 04:29.896 --> 04:32.683 [Mardi]: Ugh... that must have been fun 04:33.625 --> 04:37.194 [John]: With, I mean gloryholes and I thought in the landsbury there 04:37.234 --> 04:40.041 [Mardi]: Oh my god true story? 04:40.392 --> 04:42.095 [John]: Yeah, celebrities always went there. 04:42.355 --> 04:44.419 [John]: Jersey Clezinski was in there every night. 04:44.439 --> 04:45.801 [John]: The writer, of course, he killed himself. 04:45.881 --> 04:49.427 [John]: But also, yes, it was the place to slum. 04:49.467 --> 04:50.288 [John]: Everybody went there. 04:50.308 --> 04:54.776 [John]: You'd be standing there talking to Alain Robbe-Grillet about the new French novel. 04:55.096 --> 04:56.479 [John]: And a dick will come through a gloryhole. 04:57.240 --> 04:58.242 [John]: You just move. 04:59.203 --> 05:00.325 [John]: You go down further down. 05:01.317 --> 05:02.599 [Mardi]: Oh my god, what a life. 05:03.020 --> 05:03.621 [Mardi]: What a life. 05:04.062 --> 05:07.387 [Mardi]: So I am aging. 05:07.427 --> 05:10.172 [Mardi]: There's no word for what I'm what's happening. 05:10.472 --> 05:12.195 [John]: Aging? I'll be 80 this year. 05:12.355 --> 05:12.616 [Mardi]: 80. 05:12.836 --> 05:16.883 [Mardi]: So is there still like nasty at 80? 05:16.903 --> 05:18.646 [Mardi]: Because I'm finding I'm having trouble finding it. 05:18.706 --> 05:21.791 [John]: I'm looking for a hospice hag. 05:21.811 --> 05:23.173 [Mardi]: I love that. 05:23.727 --> 05:25.871 [Mardi]: Yeah, because I'm having trouble finding my nasty. 05:25.911 --> 05:30.961 [Mardi]: I thought I would wear something other than a tutu and maybe you could like impart some of the song. 05:31.081 --> 05:32.424 [John]: You just need a wrinkle queen. 05:32.744 --> 05:33.786 [John]: That you're on the feeling. 05:34.007 --> 05:36.011 [John]: People that are attracted to old age. 05:36.071 --> 05:37.814 [John]: There's lots of them. 05:38.836 --> 05:40.419 [John]: They're looking for us, right? 05:40.499 --> 05:41.281 [John]: We need blow jobs. 05:41.301 --> 05:42.343 [John]: You don't have to worry. 05:43.032 --> 05:45.596 [Mardi]: Perfect, I'll tell my doctor, no need for surgery. 05:46.517 --> 05:53.967 [Mardi]: Oh, so you're doing something special, and I know some of our listeners probably want to do the VIP, the group therapy, VIP. 05:54.348 --> 05:55.730 [Mardi]: Now, I've done some reading on you. 05:55.750 --> 05:57.512 [Mardi]: I don't think you're therapist. 05:58.233 --> 05:59.195 [Mardi]: What happens in this 05:59.235 --> 06:00.176 [John]: I'd be a good one though! 06:00.216 --> 06:02.820 [John]: I've studied psychiatry and I love Freud. 06:02.840 --> 06:03.901 [John]: I think he wrote the best book. 06:03.981 --> 06:06.425 [John]: Even penis envy is making a comeback. 06:07.486 --> 06:08.027 [Mardi]: Really? 06:09.762 --> 06:11.545 [John]: In the new non-binary world. 06:11.725 --> 06:12.947 [John]: Absolutely. 06:13.848 --> 06:15.611 [Mardi]: That's exactly right. 06:15.631 --> 06:16.612 [Mardi]: I think you're right. 06:17.754 --> 06:22.160 [Mardi]: So in this, one of the things that cracked me up, and I wondered if this is like left. 06:22.180 --> 06:26.106 [Mardi]: If this is one of the promotional materials left over from COVID or just your attitude. 06:26.927 --> 06:30.673 [Mardi]: You're going to have a selfie with John there, but it has to be from a distance. 06:31.042 --> 06:37.076 [John]: No, you don't have a selfie, that's why we have the, if I'm not looking in the city, that's why we call it group therapy. 06:37.797 --> 06:41.064 [John]: I've got COVID many times from doing selfies, but I don't do selfies. 06:41.365 --> 06:41.465 [Mardi]: Yeah. 06:41.485 --> 06:46.958 [John]: I'm going to pull it up around the rim of the stage and I'm behind you with you in selfie mode. 06:47.018 --> 06:50.265 [John]: And I, yeah, selfie button, I walk behind you. 06:50.245 --> 06:51.627 [John]: And that's how we do the picture. 06:51.687 --> 06:53.028 [John]: I don't stand next to you. 06:53.369 --> 06:57.393 [John]: I stopped doing selfies when I got COVID two separate times from doing it. 06:57.414 --> 07:00.237 [John]: But you get a picture when you come to the group therapy. 07:00.297 --> 07:00.537 [John]: Yes. 07:00.697 --> 07:01.618 [Mardi]: That's fantastic. 07:02.740 --> 07:07.165 [Mardi]: And it comes with preferred seats, which must be right up next to you. 07:07.566 --> 07:09.448 [Mardi]: And a show poster, signed show poster. 07:09.488 --> 07:12.571 [Mardi]: So you've got a lot of add-ons to the VIP experience. 07:12.591 --> 07:12.672 [John]: Yes. 07:12.712 --> 07:19.780 [John]: And you get to tell your secret shame to the people that come that you haven't been able to tell to a wider audience. 07:20.232 --> 07:21.253 [Mardi]: Wow. 07:21.313 --> 07:25.940 [Mardi]: I think we need to buy a ticket. 07:25.960 --> 07:26.640 [Mardi]: That's the only one? 07:26.681 --> 07:29.604 [John]: Only one what? 07:29.624 --> 07:30.365 [Mardi]: Secret shame? 07:31.066 --> 07:33.810 [John]: Oh, you can tell many different people in the audience. 07:33.830 --> 07:35.532 [John]: They might have different secret ones. 07:36.053 --> 07:39.417 [John]: I never, when I was, the shrinks wanted me to go in group therapy. 07:39.497 --> 07:41.300 [John]: That never worked as I thought correctly. 07:41.320 --> 07:42.762 [John]: They would repeat what I said. 07:43.042 --> 07:43.282 [Mardi]: Right. 07:44.264 --> 07:44.524 [Mardi]: Yep. 07:44.764 --> 07:47.488 [Mardi]: And that's why we don't do that. 07:48.700 --> 07:49.922 [Mardi]: So you travel a lot. 07:51.284 --> 07:56.070 [Mardi]: You're doing the Christmas show, but are you doing other shows leading up to the that? 07:56.090 --> 07:56.471 [John]: I'm here. 07:56.651 --> 08:00.296 [John]: I did nine last week in 11 days. 08:01.197 --> 08:01.798 [Mardi]: Wow. 08:02.479 --> 08:02.819 [Mardi]: Wow. 08:03.480 --> 08:04.742 [John]: I love traveling, I'm a carnie! 08:05.122 --> 08:06.004 [Mardi]: I love a carnie. 08:07.405 --> 08:07.806 [John]: Vaudeville. 08:08.326 --> 08:16.597 [Mardi]: I grew up on my dad was veterinary and I grew up on a racetrack, and it's all racetracks, you know, we're not talking Churchill downs, and they always put 08:16.637 --> 08:17.759 [John]: So you were around ketamine a lot 08:18.540 --> 08:19.661 [John]: and all the jockeys take them. 08:19.722 --> 08:28.754 [Mardi]: Yep, and a lot of ketamine, there was in the, in the, uh, vet bed, along with Ritalin, Doloten, and a lot of things that were legal back in the day. 08:28.814 --> 08:34.722 [Mardi]: So, yeah, I, I know about those, and there were jockeys, so they had to have their own special, special things, but, 08:35.309 --> 08:42.298 [Mardi]: They took we traveled with the carnies so i knew all the carnies so i know exactly what you're talking about uh... interest in breed of people 08:43.520 --> 09:02.245 [John]: Well i'm used to different city different day and Elton John said to me once exactly when the day you stop touring, it's over and that's why politicians hold babies, that's why and my audience today is many of them weren't even born but i made my last movie, much less the first one so um it's great i'd like to stay in touch i'd like to see what 09:02.832 --> 09:07.018 [John]: What the young people, I hate people my age that say, we had more fun than them, no you didn't. 09:07.819 --> 09:10.582 [John]: They don't know what's going on. 09:10.602 --> 09:11.944 [Mardi]: No, you didn't. 09:11.964 --> 09:12.485 [Mardi]: No, you didn't. 09:12.565 --> 09:14.067 [Mardi]: We're going to have fun when we see you. 09:14.107 --> 09:17.792 [Mardi]: And we so appreciate your time. 09:17.812 --> 09:22.318 [Mardi]: But there's one question that we ask all our guests. 09:22.818 --> 09:28.346 [Mardi]: And I wonder who, if you have one, and who would be as your queer icon? 09:29.207 --> 09:30.088 [Mardi]: I have a guess. 09:30.845 --> 09:35.070 [John]: My queer icon is going to be Jean Genet and Tennessee Williams. 09:35.090 --> 09:44.401 [John]: I wrote a whole book called Role Models, which is about all the people that I looked up to that gave me the, you know, the courage to be what I wanted to be. 09:44.441 --> 09:45.843 [John]: And I think everybody has one. 09:46.263 --> 09:51.409 [John]: So I would say Jean Genet would be my queer icon because he didn't fit in even with gay people. 09:53.472 --> 09:54.993 [John]: What did you think I was going to say? 09:55.634 --> 09:56.295 [Mardi]: Harry Hay. 09:58.537 --> 09:59.579 [John]: Oh, I liked Harry Hay. 09:59.659 --> 10:06.769 [John]: Yes, I liked that he started the, you know, ONE Magazine and stuff was great and really radical at the time. 10:06.789 --> 10:18.266 [John]: Uh, and I think the people that started that's why I'm really pro lesbian because people forget that lesbians to help us start it back up and their friends were, their girlfriends were not dying of AIDS. 10:18.607 --> 10:20.469 [John]: So we owe lesbians big time. 10:20.510 --> 10:22.573 [John]: So I'm a les-bro. That's a lesbian hag. 10:23.123 --> 10:24.625 [Mardi]: Oh God, I love that. 10:24.886 --> 10:25.466 [Mardi]: I love that. 10:25.887 --> 10:27.569 [Mardi]: I was one of those lesbians and 10:28.671 --> 10:29.492 [John]: What, you came in? 10:29.532 --> 10:36.583 [Mardi]: I wasn't in New York City, but the AIDS pandemic, you know, I was 10:36.623 --> 10:37.524 [John]: Oh, you helped there. 10:37.544 --> 10:38.245 [Mardi]: Yeah, yeah, 10:39.387 --> 10:40.368 [John]: Yeah well, that's what I mean. 10:40.388 --> 10:43.112 [John]: And gay men used to be not getting along with the lesbians. 10:43.152 --> 10:44.734 [John]: I don't get why, I get along with lesbians. 10:45.115 --> 10:45.956 [John]: If something breaks 10:46.036 --> 10:47.258 [John]: They can fix it for you. 10:48.115 --> 10:48.495 [Mardi]: That's right. 10:49.016 --> 10:49.456 [Mardi]: That's right. 10:49.497 --> 10:50.678 [Mardi]: Hang on to all the lesbians. 10:50.718 --> 10:51.319 [Mardi]: Keep them close. 10:51.959 --> 10:54.282 [John]: I don't know how to change a fuse, but not lesbian neighbors. 10:54.542 --> 10:57.806 [John]: They like changing fuses. 10:57.826 --> 10:59.648 [Mardi]: They get value and worth from it. 11:00.248 --> 11:01.410 [Mardi]: I kind of do too. 11:02.351 --> 11:06.636 [Mardi]: I'm feeling a little old because my dryer vent broke. 11:06.676 --> 11:09.138 [Mardi]: I'm like not up to, I can't get it fixed. 11:09.158 --> 11:11.541 [Mardi]: And I'm feeling like I have to give up my lesbian card soon. 11:11.622 --> 11:12.864 [Mardi]: But maybe I just need to find one of those. 11:12.884 --> 11:14.646 [John]: I just know how to plug something in. 11:14.846 --> 11:17.130 [John]: There's some things that I can not do. 11:17.150 --> 11:19.132 [John]: I've never hammered a nail in my life. 11:19.333 --> 11:26.002 [John]: But I can do some things and I can't others, but in problems that I did have a neighbor, it was like, do we need a lesbian to help us? 11:26.022 --> 11:27.524 [John]: I was like yeah, please. 11:30.528 --> 11:35.415 [Mardi]: Well, there'll be plenty of lesbians in the crowd to enjoy what you bring to town. 11:35.475 --> 11:37.698 [Mardi]: And I have one question. 11:38.259 --> 11:39.621 [Mardi]: What do your friends call you? 11:41.170 --> 11:41.310 [John]: John. 11:41.350 --> 11:42.332 [Mardi]: They do. What do people 11:42.372 --> 11:43.493 [John]: What do you think they call me? 11:43.513 --> 11:44.134 [Mardi]: Well, I don't know. 11:44.194 --> 11:47.919 [Mardi]: Like, I'm, you know, I made a joke at the start that be still my cold dead heart. 11:47.979 --> 11:52.365 [Mardi]: But I've been anxious and in thinking about talking to you, um, 11:53.066 --> 11:58.513 [John]: It's just John, is fine. What do the Little Rascals say, as long as you don't call me late for dinner. 11:58.533 --> 12:00.155 [Mardi]: I used that line all the time. 12:00.455 --> 12:01.156 [Mardi]: So. 12:01.176 --> 12:09.287 [John]: And then the other favorite Little Rascals line is I said, use the word itmus in a sentence. This must be my lucky day. 12:10.837 --> 12:12.138 [Mardi]: I love those shows. 12:13.419 --> 12:14.560 [John]: I'm dating myself. 12:14.580 --> 12:17.383 [Mardi]: Yeah, I watched them every afternoon after school. 12:17.403 --> 12:19.405 [John]: Do kids even know who the Little Rascals are? 12:19.505 --> 12:21.506 [Mardi]: No, most of them don't. 12:22.027 --> 12:26.951 [Mardi]: Unless they watched old versions of Saturday Night Live, which that may or may not be true. 12:26.991 --> 12:28.072 [John]: Right. 12:28.393 --> 12:34.758 [Mardi]: But I always find myself saying something and then having to give context, most of my staff is 12:34.838 --> 12:36.960 [John]: That's alright, I do that too when you come to my show, there's homework. 12:36.980 --> 12:38.441 [John]: If you don't get something, look it up. 12:38.582 --> 12:39.122 [Mardi]: That's right. 12:40.233 --> 12:41.935 [Mardi]: Look it up and move along. 12:42.716 --> 12:45.459 [John]: And there's another joke in one minute so. 12:45.499 --> 12:47.040 [Mardi]: Yeah, come by. 12:47.681 --> 12:50.724 [Mardi]: Sir, John, thank you so much for making time. 12:50.844 --> 12:54.508 [Mardi]: Thanks for including Boulder on your list of travel places. 12:54.828 --> 12:56.911 [Mardi]: And we look forward to seeing you here. 12:56.951 --> 12:58.072 [John]: I hope you're coming. 12:58.112 --> 12:59.233 [John]: I haven't been there in a while. 12:59.473 --> 12:59.894 [Mardi]: Well, good. 12:59.934 --> 13:00.775 [Mardi]: It's a beautiful place. 13:01.115 --> 13:02.496 [Mardi]: And we look forward to having you. 13:02.537 --> 13:04.999 [Mardi]: And have a great day. 13:05.760 --> 13:06.321 [John]: Ho, ho, ho. 13:06.861 --> 13:07.742 [Mardi]: Ho, ho, ho. 13:08.600 --> 13:20.583 [Mardi]: Proudly Out of Line is brought to you by Rocky Mountain Equality, with help from your host Mardi Moore, executive producer, Amy Zuckerman, audio producer, Theo Conover 13:21.224 --> 13:22.086 [Mardi]: Until next time.